Doc Jay (Curt Bonk) joined the discussion. (100/04/12 09:44:27)
tobauer (Tom Bauer) joined the discussion. (100/04/12 09:45:38)
Doc Jay (100/04/12 09:45:56):
Hello everyone. I am sure Bernie will be here soon live from
that southern California sun. Let him know who you are, what
you are doing, and any questions you may have for him. Thanks.
ehman (Lee Ehman) joined the discussion. (100/04/12 09:46:38)
tobauer (Tom Bauer) joined the discussion. (100/04/12 09:47:08)
ehman (100/04/12 09:47:11):
Hi, Tom & Curt. I'll be lurking here....
sstockton (Sandy Stockton) joined the discussion. (100/04/12 09:47:36)
Doc Jay (100/04/12 09:48:28):
Hello Lee and Tom.
branard (Brent Ranard) joined the discussion. (100/04/12 09:49:02)
sstockton (Sandy Stockton) joined the discussion. (100/04/12 09:50:08)
branard (100/04/12 09:50:22):
Hello everyone
tobauer (Tom Bauer) joined the discussion. (100/04/12 09:51:44)
sstockton left the chat room. (100/04/12 09:52:37)
sstockton (Sandy Stockton) joined the discussion. (100/04/12 09:52:42)
tlonnema (Tina Lonneman) joined the discussion. (100/04/12 09:53:23)
Bernie Dodge (Bernie Dodge) joined the discussion. (100/04/12 09:53:25)

Bernie Dodge (100/04/12 09:53:43):
Good afternoon!
csomers (Chris Somers) joined the discussion. (100/04/12 09:54:09)
Doc Jay (100/04/12 09:54:35):
Hey Bernie. This is the TICKIT group--not all 26 will hear but
about perhaps 4-6 of us are in and more on the way.
tlonnema (100/04/12 09:54:41):
Hello Everyone.

Doc Jay (100/04/12 09:55:19):
Sandy Stockton was a member last year and is back to hear from
you--this is great. Hi Sandy!!!
csomers (100/04/12 09:55:53):

Bernie Dodge (100/04/12 09:55:53):
Hiya Curt and all...

Is there a way to save a transcript?
tobauer (100/04/12 09:56:16):
Bernie!!! Appreciate the work that you have done with WebQuests
and the time you have spent sharing the information at ICE. YOu
have been a big motivating factor in what we are doing in
Indiana.

sstockton (100/04/12 09:56:19):
Hello, Curt! This is exciting!
csomers (100/04/12 09:56:57):
I was just wondering if Bernie sees WebQuests evolving into
something else in the future...expanding or changing form in
some way since nothing seems to stay static. What are his ideas
for the future?
Doc Jay (100/04/12 09:57:17):
Yes, I can save this at the end and post in the VU as well as
send to you. I think you can either select all and copy or go
under file and save as. I do both--one of them works better
than the other.
branard (100/04/12 09:57:27):
Bernie - I have done one WebQuest (Martian Disease Quest) and I
am working on a teenage music WebQuest now. I think the most
important thing when planning a WebQuest is to make the topic
intersting to the target group.
Bernie Dodge (100/04/12 09:57:47):
Thanks, Tom. I love going to both ICE conferences
(including the one in Illinois.) So many people doing cool
things.
tlonnema (100/04/12 09:58:08):
Hi Bernie. I'm a current student with the Tickit Program. I
created my first webquest on the Iditarod this semester. The kids
loved it. I still have a few details to add.


lclynch (Lisa Yamagata-Lynch) joined the discussion. (100/04/12 09:58:35)
Bernie Dodge (100/04/12 09:59:51):
Martian Disease Quest? Sounds intriguing.

You're right about choosing good topics. Unfortunately not
everything we have to teach is intrinsically interesting. I think
the key is to unearth an interesting task, no matter what the
topic is.
lclynch left the chat room. (100/04/12 10:00:20)
Bernie Dodge (100/04/12 10:00:46):
Hi Tina... I've seen an Iditarod quest. Was that yours?
branard (100/04/12 10:01:13):
I sent the Martian Disease Quest to your WebQuest page. How do
you ensure the task is interesting?
lclynch (Lisa Yamagata-Lynch) joined the discussion. (100/04/12 10:01:24)
Doc Jay (100/04/12 10:01:42):
Thanks Brent. I like Chris' question too--): What do you see in
the crystal ball for Webquest like activities of the future?
Will thise evolve, expand, or change and how so? Thanks Chris!


Bernie Dodge (100/04/12 10:04:13):
Making the task interesting.
Ah... that's the rub. I don't have a pat answer, but here are
several considerations:
1) make it optimally challenging. Not too hard, and not trivial.
2) take advantage of social motivation. Make it desireable
that kids talk to each other since they want to anyway.
3) Allow kids to put a unique stamp on it. Make it so that no
other kid or team would have come up with exactly the same
product.

That's the beginning of an answer.
tlonnema (100/04/12 10:04:25):
I'm not sure if it was mine. There are two other webquests on the
Iditarod. I created this quest for third grade students. I
included a link to a "learning game" about arctic animals. I was
wondering what you thougt about having connections to games? It
was fun and educational.

Bernie Dodge (100/04/12 10:05:33):
Excuse me while I wear out my scroll wheel to see what
some of the questions piling up are...
sstockton (100/04/12 10:07:04):
I do Iditarod with my class every year. Where can I find your
webquest?
Bernie Dodge (100/04/12 10:07:28):
OK.... Future WebQuests.

Hmmm.... In some ways, the more I think about it, the more
WebQuests seem like a very stretchable model for doing
any constructivist teaching. If you think broadly about...
using all kinds of inputs besides web pages, then it begins
to look, for example, like it could cover the design of good
class-to-class collaborations like the Global School House
projects. You just think about people as data sources.

For near future development of the idea, I'm working now on
filling in some of the less defined areas. In particular, I'm
working on scaffolding. How do you do it? How much do you
do it? When do you do it? That's my summer project this
year.

Other questions?

tobauer (100/04/12 10:11:10):
What do you mean by "scaffolding"

ehman (100/04/12 10:11:30):
Has there been any research on or evaluation of using WQ's in
classrooms? I've looked around and can't find any real research.
branard (100/04/12 10:12:05):
how much can you vary from the basic parts of the WebQuest and
still call it a WebQuest?
Bernie Dodge (100/04/12 10:13:42):
By scaffolding I mean helping kids to do more than they
could do by themselves without you. At just the right
moment, providing them with prompts, examples, guides,
structures, and partly done products. Doc Jay's done some
nice stuff with writing prompts that has inspired me in the
past. Right now I'm working in a taxonomy of scaffolding
types. At this moment there are 9 flavors. Film at 11.

tlonnema (100/04/12 10:14:55):
Another link I have in the webquest is to a business that sells
outdoor clothing. The purpose for this link is to allow students
to figure the costs related to cold weather gear and equipment
needed for sled dog racing. Do you feel it is appropriate to have
"commercial" links?

Doc Jay (100/04/12 10:15:16):
First, you talk about optimal challenge, intrinsic motivation,
and constructivism. Now you focus on scaffolding, just as in my
research. Are you saying that you teach such theory and
principles when you teach Webquests? I know when I talk theory
or principles with most K-12 teachers I get quite a few more
yawns than with higher education or even corporate folks. What
is your approach??? What makes you successful in linking the
two--theory and technology? By the way, I have developed 12
means of scaffolding online; higher ed teachers are interested
in these. K-12 teachers often lack time for reflection on
approach and need all the time for technology training. How can
we help?

Bernie Dodge (100/04/12 10:19:15):
Hi Lee... great question. As usual, we're all going forward
crafting WebQuests without waiting for the Center for
Ignorance Control to come up with definitive proof that they
work.

I get a note from a grad student somewhere about once a
month or so with the same question. I think there's a lot of
dissertations and theses going on right now, but not at the
point of publication. A colleague and I will be doing a
quasi-experimental study this Fall looking at variations in
cooperative learning strategies within a WebQuest.

I think what we should look for in the literature and
encourage our students to do is to look at the atoms within
the WebQuest molecule and study various combinations to
see what works best under what circumstances. We'll need
to discourage our students from doing media-comparison
type studies of WebQuest versus tradtional instruction,
since that's so broad a question that the answer tells us
nada.

ehman (100/04/12 10:22:05):
Your "atoms within the WQ molecule" image is nice!
Bernie Dodge (100/04/12 10:23:51):
Yow, Curt... I'd love to see your 12. I actually haven't had time
to do much of a lit review on the topic yet and am generating
my taxonomy first introspectively with the idea of going out to
see what great brains have thunk about it later.

As for teaching theory to pre-service teachers... I don't have
to talk about it much. The ed psych prof is the one who has
to put up with the glazed eyes and yawns. I get to assume
that they have some understanding of constructivism,
scaffolding, motivation, etc. and then do the "Now What?"
part. Makes for an easier life for me than I suspect you face.

ehman (100/04/12 10:24:17):
I agree with your "don't compare WQ to non-WQ" answer. The
cooperative groups is one "atom" to study. I think another
quite different question is teacher thought processes and support
involved in planning and implementing them. Our TIKCIT teachers
also do some action research on student impact.
tobauer (100/04/12 10:24:28):
Lee and Bernie. I also like the "atoms within the molecule"
image. There are so many factors working within a Web Quest
that make it particularly exciting.

Bernie Dodge (100/04/12 10:25:52):
To answer Tina's question... sure! Kids see commercial
information all around them and if we can make them better
spenders in the context of learning other things, what's the
harm? It might be a sneaky way to make schoolish things
seem more relevant.

Doc Jay (100/04/12 10:26:46):
Bernie--great response to Lee. I just sent you and all of
TICKIT, my list and examples of 12 means of online learning
assistance. (even before you asked) Let me know what you think
and send me yours in return. I can give you the lit review part
of 2 papers as well that lead up to them.

tlonnema (100/04/12 10:27:44):
Elementary students can especially benefit from webquests because
it allows them to navigate on the Internet somewhat independently
even though they may not have the skills to do research by
themselves.


tobauer (100/04/12 10:30:11):
Tina. I think that is true for secondary students also. It
provides a certain degree of independence and responsibility for
learning, also.
Bernie Dodge (100/04/12 10:30:29):
Lee... I think the thought processes of teachers is really key
here. In the Triton and Patterns projects here in San Diego
where I"ve gotten to work with 300 teachers over a three year
period, I think the most important impact we've had is on the
way these teachers think about teaching, even if they never
do another WebQuest for the rest of their careers. The
ideas of backward design, of authentic tasks, of rich
assessments... these things leak into their other teaching
and that's really what matters.

One problem that research might shed some light on is to
look at those who can develop lessons like these quickly.
Exactly what is that expertise about? If we can pick out the
heuristics that they're using unconsciously, perhaps we can
help others to teach this way with less perspiration.

branard (100/04/12 10:30:40):
I love WQ's because it gives me a chance to check the resources
and make sure they are good ones. There is so much CRAP out
there. I try to also build in a little searching for the
students.
Bernie Dodge (100/04/12 10:32:10):
Yes.. by giving the kids well-chosen links, we're scaffolding
the web for them. Later on they can find their own links to
answer their own questions, but for now we're doing part of
that job for them.

Other questions or comments?
Doc Jay (100/04/12 10:36:42):
Bernie_-your ideas here--backward design, authentic tasks, rich
assessments, etc.--these ideas leak into their teaching as you
say. So then technology is not just their to make learning more
powerful or boost achievement scores (if at all) but to help
teachers to reflect on and modify their teaching approaches and
philosophies. Technology, in my mind, brings about progressive
educational changes through the back door. When will be able to
use the front door?
tlonnema (Tina Lonneman) joined the discussion. (100/04/12 10:37:21)
tlonnema (100/04/12 10:38:02):
I'm back. My computer shut down.

branard (100/04/12 10:39:10):
I have to go no because I have been on lunch. I have really
enjoyed it. I will send my Martian WQ back to the WQ page. The
URL is www.socs.k12.in.us/schools/ovhs/branard/diseasequest_.html
Have a great day!
Bernie Dodge (100/04/12 10:40:34):
The front door will be open soon, I think. There will always
be little backward pushes towards cultural literacy or
back-to-basics, but the long term trend towards building
better thinkers is unstoppable, I think.

Technology is changing jobs and leisure, and when the
parents of school kids are faced with information overload
and the need to evaluate unfiltered CRAP as Brent (I think)
put it, then the support for teaching this way will be clear.
Doc Jay (100/04/12 10:40:40):
Thanks Brent!!! (We are getting a few teachers during lunch
today)
branard left the chat room. (100/04/12 10:41:16)
Bernie Dodge (100/04/12 10:42:07):
Wow. I just noticed that my last statement included 3 "I
thinks". That's probably appropriate, I think.
Doc Jay (100/04/12 10:43:26):
Good pts (I think). Let hope Bernie. Technology is tangible
(unlike thinking), but, if used in a Webquest like way, it can
spur thinking. That is why I am interested in your predictions
for the future and the next generation of Webquest-like ideas.
ehman (100/04/12 10:45:00):
One the ideas I've been playing with has to do with teaching my
undergraduates how to produce digital video clips for the web.
In creating WQ's, one of the challenges for people I work with is
a culminating activity that really helps sum up learning in an
interesting way. I wonder if having students create and
share short videos that communicate basic, important ideas
they've learned during their WQ might be one good alternative?
tobauer left the chat room. (100/04/12 10:45:53)
tlonnema (100/04/12 10:47:01):
I agree Bernie. Teacher created webquests may encourage parents
to be more open to Internet use because the quest hopefully
provides safe and educational links. Several of my students
accessed the quest at home and I heard good comments from parents.

tobauer (Tom Bauer) joined the discussion. (100/04/12 10:47:07)
Doc Jay (100/04/12 10:47:31):
Or perhaps some type of index to their work, Lee. Or a teacher-
student use competition. But I like your digital video idea
better.

Bernie Dodge (100/04/12 10:48:55):
Well... one direction that WebQuests might evolve is
towards more realtime, speeded-up experiences. Right now
the design is mostly about delving into a topic and
having/making time to think about it and sort things out.
Maybe that's a reflection of my own introversion.

But what if we could do WebQuests that were both quick to
create and quick to implement and yet deep? Something in
which quick thinking, judgment, consensus-building was
developed and rewarded. Picture an academic version of
what Olympic judges do while watching ace divers dive or
skaters skate. As the bandwidth for sensory-rich stimuli
becomes available, we might begin to ask kids to do
different things.

Anyway... that's one possible future growth area.

Doc Jay (100/04/12 10:48:50):
Looks like we are approaching 1:00 and people need to get back
to work. Perhaps it is time for final comments and big thank
you to Bernie Dodge.

ehman (100/04/12 10:49:31):
The digital video idea is only one possibility for the
"conclusion" of a WQ, the part that many just relegate to
"students discuss their findings, etc." Are there other
interesting forms of culmintating WQ's that anyone has seen?
Bernie Dodge (100/04/12 10:50:48):
Digital video as product is another good direction, Lee. This
week I'm putting together some guides for my own students
on how to make narrated streaming videos from stills, sort
of like the Civil War series.
Bernie Dodge (100/04/12 10:51:55):
I've got three groups having kids write short skits or plays as
a culminating activity right now. Seems like a rich medium to
play with.
tlonnema (100/04/12 10:52:26):
Bernie, thanks for taking time to chat with us folks in Indiana.

ehman (100/04/12 10:52:38):
I hadn't thought of plays or skits. Good alternative....
tobauer (100/04/12 10:53:05):

Bernie Dodge (100/04/12 10:53:30):
It's been a pleasure visiting with you all. Please keep me
posted on your work so we can share it with others!
sstockton (100/04/12 10:54:12):
I just want everyone to know how much I have enjoyed "listening
in" on your discussion! I have a class waiting on me, so I have
to go. But, I would love a copy of the conversations to read
again at my leisure! (I plan to work on several ideas for WQ
this summer when time is not at a premium!) THANKS for inviting
me!
tobauer (100/04/12 10:54:14):
Bernie- Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts.
Appreciate the new ideas.
ehman (100/04/12 10:55:04):
Thanks, Bernie. You've been an inspiration in my teaching....
tobauer left the chat room. (100/04/12 10:55:06)
Doc Jay (100/04/12 10:55:16):
thanks Bernie--I like your Olympics idea!!!
Bernie Dodge (100/04/12 10:56:16):
We'll be in touch again, Curt. (Hope to be hiring one of your
students this week!)

Bye all!