BernieD asks, "Is it the witching hour, BJ?"

JuneAD arrives from nowhere.

JuneRecorder follows JuneAD to here.

BJB [HelpDesk] nods to Bernie

BernieD exclaims, "Hi wife!"

BJB says, "hi, June"

DebbieB <- JOIN BJB

DMG [guest] asks, "Is Structure vs Freedom a presentation or seminar of some kind?"

BJB [to Debbie]: "you are already here!"

JuneAD says, "Hi"

BernieD says, "It's an hourlong conversation we're about to have about WebQuests."

DebbieB <- OK

DMG [guest] exclaims, "Thank you!"

BJB [to Bernie]: "how about starting with introductions?"

BernieD projects AboutB.

JaniceF has arrived.

JaniceF's Recorder (recording) has arrived. BJB says, "I'm an art teacher in snowy Pennsylvania and a staff here at TAPPED IN"

BJB says, "Hi, Janice.  We're just doing introductions"

DebbieB <- 7th Grade Social Studies teacher in Diamond Bar. Started with tapped in after Teach the Teachers.

JuneAD says, "I'm June Dodge.  I've been teaching an online course about WebQuests for almost a year.  I'm a former classroom teacher."

BJB asks, "Jane? Keturah? Debbie?  DMG?"

MikeO [guest] has arrived.

BJB says, "just a short bit about where you are and what you do"

BJB asks, "hi, Mike.  Just in time for introductions...want to tell us about you?"

DMG [guest] says, "I'm an M.Ed. candidate in Instructional Design at George Mason University."

DebbieB says, "I'll be doing a presentation on Webquests in 2 weeks, and I need to know everything I can"

JaniceF says, "Sorry, I forgot what command to type in and it took me awhile to figure it out."

JuneAD exclaims, "Keturah and MikeO (I bet) might be in in the TWW6 class!"

BJB [to Janice]: "you did a great job figuring it out."

BJB asks, "Mike and Keturah?"

JuneAD says, "Press the " sign so it comes first on the line then type."

BJB [HelpDesk] shows talk to MikeO [guest].

JaniceF says, "I am an Instructional Specialist for a Cluster of teachers in Missouri.  We just got back last week from a workshop/retreat on WebQuests here in Missouri."

KeturahN says, "Sorry, I had to rescue my beagle out of a snow drift"

CynthiaM has arrived.

DMG [guest] is relieved (about the beagle)

BJB [HelpDesk] chuckles ...poor puppy

BernieD asks, "Is that everyone?"

BernieD says, "CynthiaM... we're doing intros."

KeturahN says, "I'm called Katie . I am a technology resource teacher in the Loudoun Co. (VA) Public Schools"

CynthiaM has disconnected.

JaniceF asks, "Katie, are you outside with your computer and your beagle?"

KeturahN says, "no, running back and forth"

JaneBr322508 [guest] has lost its link.

KeturahN says, "no school today or tomorrow"

BernieD exclaims, "They're dropping like flies!"

DebbieB says, "I,m still here- just not very good at this."

DMG [guest] says, "If all your students could be plugged in, the snow wouldn't matter"

KeturahN exclaims, "No Good . . I LOVE snow days!"

JaniceF exclaims, "DebbieB, I guess we all aren't very good at this yet!"

BernieD says, "As Firesign Theater once said, we're all bozos on this bus."

DebbieB says, "I need to type faster- I'm always way behind"

CynthiaM has connected.

JuneAD says, "Ha ha"

DMG [guest] asks, "The topic tonight?  Besides snow?"

BernieD asks, "Shall we start?"

DebbieB says, "sure"

JaniceF exclaims, "I'm all for it!"

BernieD projects SF1.

CynthiaM has disconnected.

JuneAD says, "Yep"

BernieD projects SF2.

JaneBr has arrived.

BernieD says, "So one might ask, is a good WebQuest the art of achieving the maximum amount of freedom for"

JeffC has arrived.

Mrcrecorder (recording) has arrived.

JeffC waves

BernieD asks, "the maintenance of learning?"

DebbieB says, "Can I get this script by e-mail? this is my daughter's computer, and it doesn't like tappedin"

BernieD says, "Yes, Debbie... we can send you a transcript."

JaneBr says, "Could I also get the script?  I've been disconnected once and assume it will happen again."

BJB [HelpDesk] has lost her link.

DebbieB says, "Thanks

BernieD says, "If you come to the Community Page off the WebQuest page tomorrow, there will be a transcript posted there."

DebbieB says, "great"

KeturahN says, "Must be pc users"

JaneBr asks, "Have I missed a lot in the last 20 minutes or is everyone having trouble with the connection?"

DebbieB says, "I'm totally Mac, on my kid's pc. I hate it."

BernieD says, "Now is everyone ready for a projection? I'm going to take over your browser. The thing to remember is to not close the window that has the tapped in room in it."

KeturahN says, "I'm still hanging in"

BernieD says, "OK... here goes...."

JaniceF says, "I'm ready"

BernieD projects SF3.

Freedom = chaos + good lighting  OR 

Politics = freedom >< social disorder  OR 

Freedom - mistakes = 0  AND, as Bernie just

      said, Webquest = Learning + Freedom"

KeturahN asks, "Way cool, how do you do that?"

MikeO [guest] has lost its link.

BernieD says, "Magick"

BernieD says, "Spend a couple minutes with silent sustained reading."

BernieD projects SF4.

My Shadow follows BJB to here.

BernieD asks, "Any reactions?"

JuneAD says, "It sure assumes the students can write newspaper articles..."

BJB [HelpDesk] waves...sorry.  I had connection problems.

BernieD says, "True... (welcome back, BJB)"

JaniceF says, "There is very little guidance about how long the article will be or what is expected in the writing.  That could be clearer."

BernieD says, "I suppose the teacher could clarify that in person, off the page."

BernieD asks, "Do you think the student products that come from this quest will be interesting? Well done?"

JaneBr says, "I was struck by how beautiful the page was and wasn't thinking structured/unstructured."

JeffC says, "Another way to solve that would be to have them use a newspaper template (from MS Publisher, etc.), and have them design the paper that way."

JuneAD says, "It seems that there would be several things the teacher would have to do off the page."

DavidWar arrives from nowhere.

Personal_Recorder_25933 follows DavidWar to here.

JaneBr says, "Could you say  more about the newspaper template?  I don't know about that."

JaniceF says, "I notice (in the teacher notes) that it was written by a   student for a class, possibly someone who hasn't taught.  It seems like they left it open because they really didn't know what real kids could do."

BernieD says, "Good idea, JeffC. You're structuring the product that way and removing the mechanical considerations."

KeturahN says, "The conclusions you would want the students to draw are    given away at the beginning.  I'm not sure the process would get the understandings the teacher wants."

BernieD says, "Very astute, Janice. The author may not have been in the trenches yet."

JeffC says, "MS Publisher has several newspaper templates, so does Clarisworks."

JaniceF says, "A template is good, but it really doesn't help with content"

JeffC says, "No... I was just addressing the form, not the substance."

JuneAD says, "Yes, Keturah I agree - it retelling really.

BernieD asks, "What about content. Should that be structured more, or would that take the fun out of this?"

JaniceF says, "I like the fact that students can choose the topic that they are interested in."

JuneAD says, "If the students already had background this might be a fun thing for them to do.."

KeturahN says, "The content sounds like a rehash of the encylcopedia - dull"

BernieD asks, "Could be, KeturahN. How would you fix that?"

JuneAD says, "It would not do as an introduction to the topic of Greece or newspaper writing."

JeffC says, "There are a number of sites where they can get info on daily life in Greece.  Two options: have students search (time consuming), or prepare them with a half dozen or so links, or an encyclopedia."

JaneBr asks, "Is this a middle school or elementary school quest?"

BernieD says, "Sixth grade, I think."

KeturahN says, "Use more "primary" material - museum links to see sculpture, etc."

JaneBr says, "good idea."

KeturahN asks, "Ask questions which really require conclusions?"

DebbieB says, "Middle school students would be very confused. Not enough direction"

JaniceF says, "give them a problem that a real person would have to face in that time and have them come up with a solution based on the web sites they look at."

BernieD asks, "Janice points out that templates don't do much for content. What about prompted writing templates?"

JaneBr says, "I'm not sure what that is."

JuneAD says, "prompted writing templates are great with getting kids to structure their writing."

JaniceF says, "I think that would help give structure that could make the quest and the final result more meaningful."

KeturahN says, "There's a difference between organizing material you have gathered and organizing your own thoughts"

BernieD says, "KeturahN... yes, or something that requires creativity or some insight. On the other hand, these are 11 year olds."

KeturahN says, "It seems she tried to cover too much in one assignment"

JaniceF says, "I also looked at the Rubric and it could be more detailed. That would give more structure and direction."

BernieD says, "Good comment, K.  I call that the difference between   Reception Scaffolding and Transformation Scaffolding. But that's the topic of another night.,"

DebbieB says, "How does she know if they went to all the sources? that's in the rubric."

DMG [guest] has lost its link.

BernieD asks, "She could threaten them with a quiz?"

BernieD asks, "Shall we look at another?"

JaneBr says, "sure."

JaniceF says, "yes"

JuneAD says, "Ah yes, a quiz would show they knew it and then they could focus on the newsletter."

BernieD projects SF5.

JuneAD says, "DebbieB good point only if she was standing behind them with a clip board."

BernieD has lost his link.

JuneAD says, "I'm unclear on how to use the database so I'm still reading"

BJB says, "whoops...let's give Bernie a sec to log back in"

KeturahN says, "Wow, you could spend a year doing this one"

JaneBr says, "This is the most intimidating thing I have seen.  Tell me that 10 people worked on this for 2 years."

BernieD has connected.

DebbieB exclaims, "Amazing. This guy must have no life!"

BJB says, "welcome back, Bernie"

BernieD exclaims, "Whew!"

JaniceF exclaims, "I don't think I could do this although I am quite impressed!"

DebbieB says, "Very specifc. Great directions. Very clear."

BernieD asks, "Is there too much structure?"

DebbieB says, "No"

JaniceF says, "It is well thought through...but too ambitious I think."

JaneBr says, "I'm too overwhelmed to comment."

JuneAD says, "I'm not sure how the spreadsheet activity leads to the vacation..."

DebbieB says, "Well, maybe"

BernieD says, "Clearly it would occupy the kids for weeks."

DebbieB says, "Or all year"

BernieD says, "It's a nice piece of work. I'll be putting it in the matrix of examples soon."

DavidWar says, "I could see this sort of approach being used through out the year but adapted for each unit...or each country that the class is studying during the year."

BernieD asks, "The tradeoff, or one of them, though, is structure versus fun. Is there enough wiggle room here so that the learners  would feel that they're making their own uniques mark on the problem?"

JaniceF says, "I don't know many 6th graders, or come to think of it many teachers who are comfortable enough with databases and spreadsheets.  The technical challenges are large."

JuneAD says, "I think the children would have fun with the vacation part."

DavidWar says, "The students would do their family work right away, but    then overlay that over each country's study."

MarianneH arrives from nowhere.

Marianne's Recorder follows MarianneH to here.

DebbieB says, "Right. Too much preparation in teaching databases before beginning the Quest"

BernieD exclaims, "Welcome, Marianne!"

MikeO [guest] has arrived.

MarianneH says, "Hi Bernie.. nice to see you.. Sorry I missed you at ICE"

JaniceF says, "It doesn't sound boring to me.  All of that group work would be interesting.  Matching up with your family and then with the family members from each group."

JuneAD asks, "but if they already know databases then it wouldn't be a problem, would it?"

BernieD says, "I just blew in and out and didn't see anyone I knew except Jackie C."

MarianneH says, "We'll try NECC"

DebbieB asks, "6th graders?"

BernieD says, "Yes... this is probably embedded in a tech course, perhaps in concert with a social studies class."

JaniceF says, "not 6th graders I know...but maybe in a few years with more access to technology."

KeturahN says, "If you had a top level class maybe . . otherwise I don't think they get very far before they bogged down"

BernieD says, "Well... they're Canadians. They're smarter than we are. :->"

JuneAD says, "I think I would set it up so the database template could be downloaded and the kids could then enter their own data and manipulate it easier."

JuneAD says, "ha ha"

BernieD asks, "Time for another?"

KeturahN says, "Sure"

PhyllisGe has arrived.

DavidWar exclaims, "bring it on!"

BernieD projects SF6.

DebbieB says, "Not smarter than Texans"

JaniceF says, "on the last one I think it is worthwhile also to look at the teacher page."

BernieD projects SF4.

DavidWar says, "This one does a nice job of using the technology to make the structure easier to swallow, specifically the form tool(s)."

MarianneH says, "I really like the Why this activity piece""

BernieD says, "Yes (as pointed out by the writer of the FrEdWriter documentation!)"

wont [guest] has arrived.

JaniceF says, "this is another one that is so overwhelming it is hard to say...  It seemed to give a lot of good guidanne and   scaffolding."

DebbieB says, "The prompts are very appropriate to middle school   competencies"

JuneAD asks, "Was this the students or the teacher's page?"

BernieD asks, "So it's likely that the thinking of the kids would be of higher quality than perhaps in the Ancient Greece example?"

MarianneH asks, "Where are the form tools?"

BernieD says, "This is the kids page."

BernieD says, "Marianne... click on the Business Investor icon."

BernieD says, "It's a JavaScript tour de force."

MikeO [guest] asks, "I like the structure but how many of these and be done  in a 9 week period?"

MarianneH asks, "It's great.. Do the forms mail out or are they to print out?"

BernieD says, "They print."

DebbieB asks, "How do you get them?"

wont [guest] has lost its link.

BernieD says, "I think this is meant to take 3-4 weeks."

MarianneH asks, "3-4 weeks with what kind of daily time?"

BernieD says, "Dunno... depends on your kids."

Wont [guest] has arrived.

BernieD says, "I know this was a stretch for a blue collar school here near the border."

KeturahN says, "I have a hard time thinking that these could be done without many less complex ones first"

JuneAD says, "I put in fake data and pressed make my page - it looks very nice.  I wish the result were a word processor file though so they could make changes and take suggestions."

MarianneH asks, "Where was the background for those kids that this     relationship with China was a meaningful task?"

BernieD says, "Well.... we need to wind down. There's a plumber's   convention coming in that needs the room."

DebbieB says, "With those #$$%%$# standards, you're lucky to find time for 1 or 2 a year"

JuneAD says, "I hope the backgrd was in the part we didn't read - probably was MarianneH"

MikeO [guest] says, "I agree that the kids will probably use more higher order thinking skills in the China WebQuest than inthe Greek one"

KeturahN asks, "What's realistic though for the average classroom teacher to create?"

MarianneH asks, "What did the kids know that made it important to them was what I asked?"

JuneAD says, "It gave them more guidance - yes MikeO"

DebbieB says, "Yes. In the Greek one, they'll spend their time arguing   about what to do, and turn in something that look s lik the encyclopedia"

JaniceF says, "time flys...  I want to say that regarding detail and   putting structure into websites it was helpful to think that teachers can always leave out structure if it does not fit their situation.  A lack of structure creates work and maybe not success."

BernieD says, "They did a lot of up front reading before getting to that part Marianne."

BernieD asks, "A nice summary, Janice. Does anyone else have a comment like that?"

JuneAD says, "Katie - this last WQ took the author many months full time to create - perhaps longer."

JuneAD says, "It was his job to create the forms and things."

DebbieB asks, "What about the Chna on" How long to create?"

BernieD says, "We dunno, Deb."

DebbieB says, "OOps- China one"

MarianneH says, "China has many incarnations and developed as we learned more about the pedagogy of webquests.."

BernieD says, "Our time is at an end. I hope you all got something out of this and that we'll see you again next month."

MarianneH asks, "isn't that so?"

Wont [guest] has disconnected.

MarianneH says, "thanks all"

JaniceF exclaims, "Thanks Bernie and good night!"

BernieD says, "Agreed, MH."

KeturahN exclaims, "Happy Snow Days!"

DebbieB says, "Bye"

BJB says, "It's almost the end of our hour.  I'd like to remind everyone that a transcript of this ASO will be placed in the Emailer in this room"

DavidWar says, "Would it be true to say that effective structure relieves the teacher to facilitate more...individually."

PhyllisGe says, "good night"

BernieD exclaims, "Good point, DW!"

JaneBr has lost her link.

MarianneH exclaims, "night Phyliss.. see you soon!"

KeturahN goes OUT.

BJB exclaims, "thanks everyone for another fast and amazing time!"

DavidWar exclaims, "Oh, heck, just beginning to roll!"

MikeO [guest] asks, "the WQ's we looked at tonite were "long" projects. Is the WQ flexible enough to be a one or 2 day activity?"

PhyllisGe goes OUT.

BernieD exclaims, "Mike... yes!"

DebbieB says, "Great question"

DavidWar says, ""Thanks BJB, and special thanks to Bernie..."

JaniceF exclaims, "It does seem that you just get going and time is gone!"

DebbieB asks, "How about the topic of really short quests sometime?"

MarianneH says, "that would be a great session... 2-3 day wq"

JuneAD says, "MikeO - yes -"

BernieD exclaims, "How about next time... since Feb is the shortest month, that would make a good theme!"

JuneAD says, "Short WQs for the short month - Feb"

MarianneH groans

JuneAD says, "Great minds..."

DebbieB exclaims, "I'll be there!"

JaniceF exclaims, "sounds good to me!"

MikeO [guest] says, "Me too"

JuneAD says, "MikeO - these China WQ were not examples of what you will create in the class."

BJB says, "make sure you all check the calendar for the next WQ....if you  join the MEETME list you'll get a weekly reminder"

BernieD says, "OK... good night all. Stay warm."

DavidWar says, "Perhaps we'll be thawed out by then here in North Carolina."

MarianneH says, "not in chicago! night"

JeffC has lost his link.

BernieD has lost his link.

JaniceF goes OUT.

JaniceF's Recorder (recording) goes OUT. MikeO [guest] goes OUT.

DebbieB has disconnected.

DavidWar has disconnected.

JuneAD says, "Thanks BJB - we really appreciate your help."

BJB says, "My pleasure, June"

MarianneH has lost her link.

JuneAD says, "Good night then - thank you for coming."

JuneAD exclaims, "Next month - see you!"

JuneAD says, "Poof"

BJB [HelpDesk] waves...looking forward to it

JuneAD says, "okay then bye"

JuneAD goes OUT.

JuneRecorder (recording) goes OUT.

Stopped recording in After School Online Room (#1460) at Tue Jan 25 18:36:41 2000 PST.